EBOB_MARSH
commented
in reference to scenery pack
45516on November 15, 2016 9:43 PM
Problem with checking operation of KOSU AP FLOW operations.
My latest KOSU AP FLOW Scheme is in need of checking for valid ATC selection of the six flows and their effects. This is the confusion my checking seems to create in doing so.
Initialization: When the initial flow selection is made in ATC setup, it appears that the LAST Flow in the Flow listing is somehow selected. (Possibly an initial setting to simplify initialization?)
I am progressing from simple to more complex in my checking, so I initialize X-Plane on bring up to clear WX with no wind from the XP bring up window with my selection of a Prop AC . The AI aircraft that are active in the setup are: (N01) an A Jet, (N02) an A Prop, and (N03) a B Jet. from the previous regular setup for 3 AI aircraft. KOSU's Runways can support, at max, B size Aircraft. With this setup, it appears that at initialization X-Plane starts with the Flow specified with the LAST Flow in the Flow listing, a flow which is an ILS Flow for the only ILS Runway 27L, and which has a USE Definer which is for all AC Types, and for both Departures and Arrivals with zero minimums and maxed wind speeds of any direction.
The first AP Flow in the series is for 3000 min and 3.0 Miles and a max of 3Knts wind which reads light and variable in the ATIS. This status is apparently sensed AFTER initial XP setup described above. There are 3 Use rules for this Calm Flow for 2 possible RWs. Flow for Arr&Dep on RW 27L for jets and TProps; a second RW 27L Flow for Arr for Props only, and a third for RW 5 Prop Departures.
No other AC types are specified in these flows but jets, tprops, and props.
Looking at log.txt, there is an eventual switch from the ILS Flow to the Calm Flow after the AI AC are cleared from their first takeoffs. This switch takes the better part of 10 minutes as the situation progresses.
Questions about this procedure.
A. Checking the results is a really long task, so it is essential to know how the Flows are setup in initialization since the current set weather is apparently ignored at initialization time. Further, since the selection of AI aircraft is independent of the Flow Data and can change with different users, will the different AI aircraft types then change the selection of Flows in X-Plane, and is this an initial or is it a dynamic process?. IE: if I change AI aircraft from the drop down windows and select a type not mentioned in the Flow, does the Flow selection then get changed in the same way it does with a WX change?
B. Is the last Flow used in XP initialization, or is there some other selection process? Is it possible that all AC types must be covered in the USE entries to satisfy selection criteria? The current instructions for Flows seem to imply that is not a requirement, yet the fact that AI aircraft can be added and changed , seems to imply that the Flow selection process will be dynamic with the events of arriving AC during the simulation, or if the aircraft used in AI or even the user aircraft are changed inside of an activated XP simulation. How is this handled? What if I add an AI aircraft that is not in the USE rules??
Having to wait for the switch that occurs for initial WX to drive the simulator is especially annoying and is a bad feature of the simulator, in my opinion. Any reboot of the simulator repeats the process again and is a waste of simulaton utilization and proper operation. How the changes to AI aircraft that can be made internally and the effects on Flow Selection and timimg should also be explained especially when it appears that it is ok to have a full flow which has any number of aircraft types specified in the USE rules in a single ACCEPTABLE flow.
Thanks for the help in advance.
Bob Marsh
EBOB_MARSH
commented
in reference to scenery pack
45545on November 17, 2016 10:32 PM
This regards A. above. The problem seems to be regarding the initial wind direction and its speed set at the initial start of XPlane from its boot. You can see this happen when you select current WX at the XP Start window at the first part of the boot process.
You can observe it in the wind direction indicator in the cockpit glass pannel HSI.
Set up for current WX in the Window, with your AC and the AP location, and let the XP Boot up. When the process is finished, watch the first several seconds of the Wind Direction and speed indicator on the panel. You will see that the wind direction and speed indicate inaccurate data for about 2 seconds before switching solidly to the proper downloaded figures which then remain constant at their values. I believe that in this short time of bad indicated data, that the tests for the correct flows are made, In my observations the initial 2 second bad values result in the corresponding bad Flow selections at initialization.
If you set clear WX with no WX download at the Initialization Wndow, there is no glitch in the setting and the Flow selection proceeds as expected. Bob Marsh
You must be logged in to participate in the discussion
Problem with checking operation of KOSU AP FLOW operations.
My latest KOSU AP FLOW Scheme is in need of checking for valid ATC selection of the six flows and their effects. This is the confusion my checking seems to create in doing so.
Initialization: When the initial flow selection is made in ATC setup, it appears that the LAST Flow in the Flow listing is somehow selected. (Possibly an initial setting to simplify initialization?) I am progressing from simple to more complex in my checking, so I initialize X-Plane on bring up to clear WX with no wind from the XP bring up window with my selection of a Prop AC . The AI aircraft that are active in the setup are: (N01) an A Jet, (N02) an A Prop, and (N03) a B Jet. from the previous regular setup for 3 AI aircraft. KOSU's Runways can support, at max, B size Aircraft.
With this setup, it appears that at initialization X-Plane starts with the Flow specified with the LAST Flow in the Flow listing, a flow which is an ILS Flow for the only ILS Runway 27L, and which has a USE Definer which is for all AC Types, and for both Departures and Arrivals with zero minimums and maxed wind speeds of any direction.
The first AP Flow in the series is for 3000 min and 3.0 Miles and a max of 3Knts wind which reads light and variable in the ATIS. This status is apparently sensed AFTER initial XP setup described above. There are 3 Use rules for this Calm Flow for 2 possible RWs. Flow for Arr&Dep on RW 27L for jets and TProps; a second RW 27L Flow for Arr for Props only, and a third for RW 5 Prop Departures. No other AC types are specified in these flows but jets, tprops, and props.
Looking at log.txt, there is an eventual switch from the ILS Flow to the Calm Flow after the AI AC are cleared from their first takeoffs. This switch takes the better part of 10 minutes as the situation progresses.
Questions about this procedure.
A. Checking the results is a really long task, so it is essential to know how the Flows are setup in initialization since the current set weather is apparently ignored at initialization time. Further, since the selection of AI aircraft is independent of the Flow Data and can change with different users, will the different AI aircraft types then change the selection of Flows in X-Plane, and is this an initial or is it a dynamic process?. IE: if I change AI aircraft from the drop down windows and select a type not mentioned in the Flow, does the Flow selection then get changed in the same way it does with a WX change?
B. Is the last Flow used in XP initialization, or is there some other selection process? Is it possible that all AC types must be covered in the USE entries to satisfy selection criteria? The current instructions for Flows seem to imply that is not a requirement, yet the fact that AI aircraft can be added and changed , seems to imply that the Flow selection process will be dynamic with the events of arriving AC during the simulation, or if the aircraft used in AI or even the user aircraft are changed inside of an activated XP simulation. How is this handled? What if I add an AI aircraft that is not in the USE rules??
Having to wait for the switch that occurs for initial WX to drive the simulator is especially annoying and is a bad feature of the simulator, in my opinion. Any reboot of the simulator repeats the process again and is a waste of simulaton utilization and proper operation. How the changes to AI aircraft that can be made internally and the effects on Flow Selection and timimg should also be explained especially when it appears that it is ok to have a full flow which has any number of aircraft types specified in the USE rules in a single ACCEPTABLE flow.
Thanks for the help in advance. Bob Marsh
This regards A. above. The problem seems to be regarding the initial wind direction and its speed set at the initial start of XPlane from its boot. You can see this happen when you select current WX at the XP Start window at the first part of the boot process. You can observe it in the wind direction indicator in the cockpit glass pannel HSI. Set up for current WX in the Window, with your AC and the AP location, and let the XP Boot up. When the process is finished, watch the first several seconds of the Wind Direction and speed indicator on the panel. You will see that the wind direction and speed indicate inaccurate data for about 2 seconds before switching solidly to the proper downloaded figures which then remain constant at their values. I believe that in this short time of bad indicated data, that the tests for the correct flows are made, In my observations the initial 2 second bad values result in the corresponding bad Flow selections at initialization. If you set clear WX with no WX download at the Initialization Wndow, there is no glitch in the setting and the Flow selection proceeds as expected. Bob Marsh